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froginarnold
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 12:15 pm |
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I heard on Catholic radio that if someone commits a mortal sin then dies before going to confession, that person goes to hell. I went to my pastor who told me it is very difficult for someone to actually commit a mortal sin and then explained the requirements. I felt a bit better until my very good friend and sponsor in the Church told me on average 60% of all Catholics commit a mortal sin every week when they don't attend mass on Sunday. I asked her if she thought that if they all died on Monday without confession they were going to hell, she said yes. Wow! I thought, "That's pretty cheap grace." All of Christ's sufferings and the incredible gift of grace thrown away every week by 60% of all Catholics.
I think this whole thing is ridiculous and sounds a lot like legalism, especially in light of my second confession. I went in to confess pride, anger and laziness, all of the seven deadly sins variety. The priest allowed me to say about one sentence for pride and anger before getting annoyed and saying the things I was confessing weren't even sins. "A sin is when you break a law of the church," he said emphatically. I sat there silently because I was confused and trying to think if pride and anger aren't sins, laziness probably won't cut the mustard either. He kept asking, "What law of the Catholic Church did you break." I couldn't think of any "church law" that I had broken. This made him even angrier. I finally threw out, "I took the Lord's name in vain." He said, "OK, three Hail Mary's and I think that's enough for today." He waved me out with his hand and that was that. No act of contrition on my part or anything. (Later, I wrote him a letter telling him how hurt and angry I was. He wrote back and apologized. End of story.) I'm just repeating it here to point out that there is a lot of legalism similar to what I experienced in the Baptist church. (A pastor even told us what grocery store to shop at.)
I don't believe for a minute that I can throw away the salvation God gave me out of His good grace by staying home on Sunday or shopping at the wrong supermarket. I have plenty of Scripture to support my belief, but my Catholic friend won't even look at them because she believes only in what the Church teaches. I think either the Church teaches a falsehood or she misunderstands the Church's teaching.
Look forward to your replies.
Kim
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 768 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 02:14 pm |
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I'm sorry to change the subject entirely, but I can't help saying that
YOU STOLE MY DAVID ECKSTEIN!!
:X
And I will look forward to more serious replies than mine!
Jill
Big Angels fan - still Anaheim Angels in my heart
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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AD
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 21st, 2007 |
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| First Name: | AL | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Baptist Pentacostal Non Denominational |
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 02:38 pm |
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Welcome to my world Kim  Even though I have many questions about the catholic teaching, I am here to listen and learn what others believe the Scripture teaches. I always pray and ask the Father to give me Ears to Hear & Eyes to see in the Spirit & and not in the flesh. It is for the most part a sincere forum and I have found people most friendly although ready to defend the faith as they know it. I believe as long as your hear to learn then you must also be ready to agree to dis-agree without attacking the messenger, which is not hard when your full of the love of GOD and love all who are part of the body of CHRIST. Enjoy and GOD speed
1st John 3:v14 say's We know we have passed from death unto life, because we love the breathen. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Peace
Last edited on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 02:41 pm by AD
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Juan
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 17th, 2006 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 02:39 pm |
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Hi Kim,
I'm all ears. You may respond to me here or at my email:
mdechristi@lycos.com
In the meantime, remember that all Christians are at different stages or states of holiness. Even some Priests are engaged "intellectually" but not "spiritually".
Seek strength in the arms of Jesus,
May God bless you,
Sincerely,
Juan
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 02:50 pm |
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froginarnold wrote: I heard on Catholic radio that if someone commits a mortal sin then dies before going to confession, that person goes to hell.
That is clearly the teaching of the Catholic Church ... sort of.
If the person has sincere sorrow for the sin and the firm intention of going to confession at the earliest possible opportunity, but dies prior to actually being able to confess, we believe that it constitutes a sort of "Confession of Desire" and God will provide a way for forgiveness.
I went to my pastor who told me it is very difficult for someone to actually commit a mortal sin and then explained the requirements. I felt a bit better until my very good friend and sponsor in the Church told me on average 60% of all Catholics commit a mortal sin every week when they don't attend mass on Sunday. I asked her if she thought that if they all died on Monday without confession they were going to hell, she said yes. Wow! I thought, "That's pretty cheap grace." All of Christ's sufferings and the incredible gift of grace thrown away every week by 60% of all Catholics.
Our Church teaches us that for a sin to be mortal, it must be a grave matter committed knowingly and willingly. Do you believe the 60% (based on your friend's number) who miss mass on Sunday truly believe they are committing a mortal sin, and then do so willingly? Missing mass is certainly a grave matter, but if those who are missing believed it to be so, they would most likely be in church. We cannot commit mortal sin without knowledge, and it must be a willful act. Otherwise, it's not a mortal sin.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Juan
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 03:05 pm |
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I heard on Catholic radio that if someone commits a mortal sin then dies before going to confession, that person goes to hell.
True.
I went to my pastor who told me it is very difficult for someone to actually commit a mortal sin and then explained the requirements.
Also true. Is this the same Pastor to whom you confessed?
I felt a bit better until my very good friend and sponsor in the Church told me on average 60% of all Catholics commit a mortal sin every week when they don't attend mass on Sunday. I asked her if she thought that if they all died on Monday without confession they were going to hell, she said yes. Wow! I thought, "That's pretty cheap grace." All of Christ's sufferings and the incredible gift of grace thrown away every week by 60% of all Catholics.
I don't know if she includes me in those 60%. I work an 8 days on 7 days off job. That is my schedule. Its called compressed hours, so I work 80 hours to 96 hours in 8 days. Generally, there are no Masses after 5pm, so if I work til quitting time, I frequently can't go to Mass.
However, this is not a mortal sin, according to my Pastor and to my understanding of Catholic doctrine.
However, if I simply decide that Christ's suffering on the Cross is not worth one hour of my time on Sunday, that is a mortal sin:
Apocalypse 3
16 But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.
Hebrews 1022 Let us draw near with a true heart in fulness of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with clean water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering (for he is faithful that hath promised), 24 And let us consider one another, to provoke unto charity and to good works: 25 Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries. 28 A man making void the law of Moses, dieth without any mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace?
I think this whole thing is ridiculous and sounds a lot like legalism, especially in light of my second confession. I went in to confess pride, anger and laziness, all of the seven deadly sins variety. The priest allowed me to say about one sentence for pride and anger before getting annoyed and saying the things I was confessing weren't even sins. "A sin is when you break a law of the church," he said emphatically.
Those aren't the only sins, since we must keep the Commandments of God first and foremost. Your Pastor must have been having a bad day.
I sat there silently because I was confused and trying to think if pride and anger aren't sins, laziness probably won't cut the mustard either.
Probably not on that occasion. You responded correctly.
He kept asking, "What law of the Catholic Church did you break." I couldn't think of any "church law" that I had broken. This made him even angrier. I finally threw out, "I took the Lord's name in vain." He said, "OK, three Hail Mary's and I think that's enough for today." He waved me out with his hand and that was that. No act of contrition on my part or anything. (Later, I wrote him a letter telling him how hurt and angry I was. He wrote back and apologized. End of story.)
I'm glad he apologized. He needed to.
I'm just repeating it here to point out that there is a lot of legalism similar to what I experienced in the Baptist church. (A pastor even told us what grocery store to shop at.)
I don't believe for a minute that I can throw away the salvation God gave me out of His good g Irace by staying home on Sunday or shopping at the wrong supermarket.
If by staying home on Sunday, you mean, staying away from Mass for no particular reason then it is a Mortal Sin. Jesus asks us to love Him. How do we express our love if we stay away from the memorial that He established for union with us. It is like refusing to kiss your husband.
Matthew 22
37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.
I have plenty of Scripture to support my belief,
Please produce it. I would love to go over it with you.
but my Catholic friend won't even look at them because she believes only in what the Church teaches.
There is no discrepancy between what the Church teaches and what the Bible teaches. Tell her another Catholic said so. And I bet I know both the Catechism and the Bible better than she.
I think either the Church teaches a falsehood or she misunderstands the Church's teaching.
The Church doesn't teach falsehood. But I wouldn't say that she doesn't understand either the Bible or Catholic Teaching. It may be that you and she are simply not communicating with each other as effectively as you should.
Sincerely,
Juan
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Darlene
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 05:14 pm |
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Hello Kim,
I hope that as a sincere Christian on the journey toward the Catholic faith, I can be of some help to you.
froginarnold wrote:
I heard on Catholic radio that if someone commits a mortal sin then dies before going to confession, that person goes to hell. I went to my pastor who told me it is very difficult for someone to actually commit a mortal sin and then explained the requirements. I felt a bit better until my very good friend and sponsor in the Church told me on average 60% of all Catholics commit a mortal sin every week when they don't attend mass on Sunday. I asked her if she thought that if they all died on Monday without confession they were going to hell, she said yes. Wow! I thought, "That's pretty cheap grace." All of Christ's sufferings and the incredible gift of grace thrown away every week by 60% of all Catholics. Cheap grace would moreso be along the lines of someone being able to take their sin lightly, showing an unappreciative attitude toward the great sacrifice our Lord Jesus made on Calvary. Also, one must also consider the constancy of a particular sin. For example, if a Catholic continually misses Mass week after week simply because they just don't care about receiving Jesus in the Eucharist, this shows a cavalier and disrespectful attitude toward our Lord Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. Catholics who only attend Mass once in a while, and/or when it is convenient for them, and/or only on Christmas and Easter, have made a practice of committing sin. They are Catholic in name only, having no real resemblance to a genuine child of God. Such Catholics are stumbling blocks to those who desire to enter Christ's Church with a sincere heart. Cheap grace is something that can be merited with little or no effort. So let me give you a more appropriate example of cheap grace. Let's say a person says the Sinners Prayer and asks Jesus Christ to forgive them of their sins and accepts Him as their Lord and Savior. Soon afterward, they are taught that, "Jesus Christ did it all for you. He paid the price for your sin on Calvary and their is nothing that you can add to His finished work of grace. There is no prayer, no works, nothing whatsoever that you can do to add to your salvation." "Hmmm" this person thinks, "I suppose I don't have to go to church. And since all my works are as filthy rags, there really isn't anything that I can do that will alter my salvation. Why, if I never pray again, that won't alter my spiritual destination, since "none can snatch the believer out of the Father's hand." Soon, this person stops attending church, stops praying, does absolutely nothing with regard to his salvation. Soon, he starts hanging around with the wrong crowd, who lie, cheat and steal. Soon, he begins to do the same thing. His life dissipates into a series of one sinful act after another. He commits fraud, cheats on his wife and becomes an alcoholic. One night, while in a drunken stupor, he has a head-on collision and dies instantly. Does this man go to hell? Those who teach the doctrine of Eternal Security would say 'no.' Now that is cheap grace! And this doctine is taught in thousands of Evangelical churches across the country and throughout the world.
I think this whole thing is ridiculous and sounds a lot like legalism, especially in light of my second confession. I went in to confess pride, anger and laziness, all of the seven deadly sins variety. The priest allowed me to say about one sentence for pride and anger before getting annoyed and saying the things I was confessing weren't even sins. "A sin is when you break a law of the church," he said emphatically. I sat there silently because I was confused and trying to think if pride and anger aren't sins, laziness probably won't cut the mustard either. He kept asking, "What law of the Catholic Church did you break." This indicates to me that this priest is not in touch with the laity. Where is his head really at? This was an inappropriate question to ask and shows ineffective counseling skills, of which he as a priest and confessor, should have. I couldn't think of any "church law" that I had broken. This made him even angrier. I finally threw out, "I took the Lord's name in vain." He said, "OK, three Hail Mary's and I think that's enough for today." Again, something is very wrong with this priest. This is lousy advice for someone who has confessed, what they as yourself, believe to be serious sin. He is showing how unconcerned about your spiritual welfare he really is. It sound as though he is a very poor Confessor and you need to find someone else to confide in. He waved me out with his hand and that was that. No act of contrition on my part or anything. (Later, I wrote him a letter telling him how hurt and angry I was. He wrote back and apologized. Apologies are good, but his demeanor in the "confessional" would send RED FLAGS my way. End of story.) I'm just repeating it here to point out that there is a lot of legalism similar to what I experienced in the Baptist church. (A pastor even told us what grocery store to shop at.) Ok, now this is where I just gotta ask, WHY IN THE WORLD DID YOU BECOME A CATHOLIC IN THE FIRST PLACE??? I noticed from your profile that you were a Lutheran twice and a Baptist in between and then hmmmm... What in the world does "Hmmm" mean? I will take it for granted, however, that if you went to Confession you must be Catholic. What prompted you to become a Catholic? Did you understand what the CC teaches before you became Catholic? Did you go through RCIA, and if so, didn't they teach about Church doctrine and beliefs. You should have learned about mortal sin and attendance at Mass prior to becoming a Catholic. Or is it just that since you have become Catholic, you are having serious questions about your conversion and thinking about going back to Protestantism? If so, why? Is it just this issue with Mass attendance or other things about the Catholic faith that you are seriously questioning? Something else I would caution you about is that just because a priest says something, it does not make it so. There are faithful priests who love the Lord Jesus and His Church, and their are liberal, apathetic priests who could care less about God and our Lord's Church. They are as Jesus would call them, blind guides and false shepherds, hirelings, which care nothing for the flock of God. What you have said about this priest, IMHO, casts doubt on his spiritual state. I would never go to a priest with such a careless attitude and lack of compassion. I don't believe for a minute that I can throw away the salvation God gave me out of His good grace by staying home on Sunday or shopping at the wrong supermarket. What if you make a habit of this practice and decide you can attend Mass just whenever you "feel" like it? I have plenty of Scripture to support my belief, but my Catholic friend won't even look at them because she believes only in what the Church teaches. You speak of your Catholic friend as if you have distanced yourself from her. Aren't you a Catholic as well? Btw, making a comment such as, "she believes only in what the Church teaches" shows your poor understanding of Catholic teaching and the Catholic Catechism. Have you ever read the Catholic Catechism? If so, you must know that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of scripture references in it to defend "what the Church teaches." There is no disparity between what the Church teaches and Sacred Scripture. Both support each other. Why put the Church and the Bible at odds with each other? This is something Protestants do, not Catholics. I think either the Church teaches a falsehood or she misunderstands the Church's teaching.
Kim, I think more is going on here with you than meets the eye. If I "read between the lines" I would say that you are have serious, if not intense, struggles with the Catholic faith that you embraced willingly at one time. (at least I assume you willingly became a Catholic, right?) So what happened? Personally, and I may be wrong, but it sounds like you are allowing Protestant influences to affect your thinking. Did you fully investigate the Catholic Churchs' teachings prior to becoming Catholic? Didn't you agree to believing in all that the Church teaches before converting to Catholicism? Did you understand the serious committment you were making in becoming Catholic?
I hope you come to terms with the apprehensions you have concerning your conversion to Catholicism. May our Lord Jesus bless you in your search and desire to know and love Him better. Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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BodRod
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Posted: Sat Jun 30th, 2007 08:41 pm |
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CajunRick wrote:
That is clearly the teaching of the Catholic Church ... sort of.
It is clear to me that Christ gave the leaders of the new church the power and authority to decide which sins would be forgiven and which ones would not be forgiven. However, it is not clear that they were given the power and authority to decide what sin is. It seems to me that Christ stated what should be considered as sin by His giving the two new commandments before He left this earth. So, it seems to me that sin would be doing anything which is against any one of the two new commandments and nothing else.
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 11:50 am |
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BodRod wrote: So, it seems to me that sin would be doing anything which is against any one of the two new commandments and nothing else.
I think you're right, Criff. I think all sin is summarized in loving God and loving neighbor. Even such "legalistic" sins as missing mass are sins when they demonstrate a failure to love God and each other, and not sins when they don't. And I think when we judge for ourselves whether we have sinned, we must consider how it affects love. To miss mass to care for a sick or elderly friend or relative is a loving act, and so not gravely sinful.
As a sinner, I must judge my sinfulness on the basis of Jesus "Law of Love". As an outsider, I cannot judge another's sinfulness for the same reason. I cannot know how their commitment to love requires them to act.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BodRod
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 01:38 pm |
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I am experiencing an interesting sequence of events this morning. In Mass this morning, Fr. Tony told a story of a man who missed Mass because he had been approached by a beggar for some money to get something to eat. The man took the beggar to a nearby resturant and bought him a meal. In doing so, the man missed Mass but in God's eyes, the man had made the correct choice. The I got home are read your posting. It all fits. This all reminds me of the discussion Christ had relative to pulling the donkey out of the ditch on the Sabbath. BTW, Fr. Tony is BIG, no make that HUGE on our sharing the love we get from God with those around us. 
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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froginarnold
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 12:12 am |
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Oh, you probably think I vented and then left. But since my posting, I sold my house, learned a new job (then, asked my boss for a raise), have been traveling to my mother-in-law's home who has terminal cancer (please pray for her), left town for a few days, celebrated my birthday (39 again)...all the while not forgetting to get back here and reply to your postings. Thanks so much for them.
Since joining the church, there have been several teachings that have come up that I just don't agree with. I sincerely thought I had done more than enough preparation before joining the church. You should see the stack of books I've read, mostly written by protestant converts with lots of scripture verses. This forum was a great help. I met with my pastor several times. It was great study. The parts of the catechism I read were very inspirational. I really did not pick up on the rules and regulations. When I stated in front of the church that I believed all that the Catholic church believes and teaches as inspired by God, it was with the Nicene Creed in front of me, not the catechism.
Bottom line, I think I made a mistake. What I thought would bring me and my husband closer is driving us apart. When I went to the pastor with my concerns, he said, "You know, you didn't have to join the Catholic church." I guess he's right (although I don't know if the Pope would agree with him based on what I read in the paper today). Anyway, thanks again for your postings. I am still considering them.
Kim
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BettyBoopToo
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Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 04:19 am |
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froginarnold wrote: Oh, you probably think I vented and then left.
Kim
I didn't think that at all, I thought you must have some other things going on in your life that was causing you additional stress and worry.
But since my posting, I sold my house, learned a new job (then, asked my boss for a raise), have been traveling to my mother-in-law's home who has terminal cancer (please pray for her),
I certainly will pray for your MIL. this sounds like alot of stress and I'll pray for you as well.
Since joining the church, there have been several teachings that have come up that I just don't agree with. I sincerely thought I had done more than enough preparation before joining the church. You should see the stack of books I've read, mostly written by protestant converts with lots of scripture verses. This forum was a great help. I met with my pastor several times. It was great study. The parts of the catechism I read were very inspirational. I really did not pick up on the rules and regulations. When I stated in front of the church that I believed all that the Catholic church believes and teaches as inspired by God, it was with the Nicene Creed in front of me, not the catechism.
I'm really not sure how to address your feelings here, but I am sincerly concerned that maybe you have some more questions you'd like to discuss or you have further issues. I hope that you will feel free to ask and share what your feeling. Or what kinds of things in the CC that you've found you don't agree with.
Bottom line, I think I made a mistake. What I thought would bring me and my husband closer is driving us apart.
I can understand your distress with you and your husband. I've cried many a tear over this and live most days in fear of his very salvation. We believe so many different things, that I've even pleaded with the lord as to why he would want to cause us such division. I personally have faith that he will be working on my husband in order to bring us together in our faith and beliefs. I've even excepted that It may not be until after I'm dead that my husband turns to the church. And I'll never get to see it myself, while on this earth. I continue to practice my faith and try very hard to care for my husbands feeling also.
When I went to the pastor with my concerns, he said, "You know, you didn't have to join the Catholic church." I guess he's right (although I don't know if the Pope would agree with him based on what I read in the paper today).
I don't really care for his comment, but I was not there and don't know the whole conversation. I have been counseled by several different priest & a mother superior and and older sister Mary regarding the status of my conversion and my husbands occaisional anamosity and have never been told that by any priest or nun regarding my husband. They have all instructed me to continue going to mass weekly and HD's of Obligation, Not to get toooo involved in several activities and neglect my husbands needs either. have charity and consider his feelings, but let him know that I'm also obligated to the Lord first and I'm a wife second. Have Patience, and kindness. And above all, Pray without ceasing for him. Pray Novena's, Rosarys, the Chaplet, etc. I even had a priest tell me to stop talking to him about it, he's never going to listen to me, it will have to come from some one else, so I should talk less and pray more. Trust God and he will take care of the rest in his time. So that's what I do.
I do sinecerly pray that you will give this some time and a great deal of prayer. It sounds like you have alot of stressful things going on right now and I just hope you wait and let the dust settle before you make such a big decision.
God Bless you! I'll be praying for you
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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lia
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 04:07 am |
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BodRod wrote: I am experiencing an interesting sequence of events this morning. In Mass this morning, Fr. Tony told a story of a man who missed Mass because he had been approached by a beggar for some money to get something to eat. The man took the beggar to a nearby resturant and bought him a meal. In doing so, the man missed Mass but in God's eyes, the man had made the correct choice. The I got home are read your posting. It all fits. This all reminds me of the discussion Christ had relative to pulling the donkey out of the ditch on the Sabbath. BTW, Fr. Tony is BIG, no make that HUGE on our sharing the love we get from God with those around us.
From the Good Samaritan reading...the priest's homily said do not make religion an excuse not to help your fellow man.
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Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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BodRod
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 06:32 am |
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CajunRick wrote: To miss mass to care for a sick or elderly friend or relative is a loving act, and so not gravely sinful.
Your posting brings to mind a discussion we have had here at home. Non-Catholics seem to be unable to grasp the significance of receiving at and at each mass. I enjoy the social aspects of going to mass, the music, the homily, etc. but I think I really go to receive. That is a lot different than in my Prot. days when the significance of communion was that it made lunch late.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 12:23 pm |
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Two comments:
the priest who catechized me also said to me, "you don't have to be Catholic." i thought, "yes, I do." Turns out he is questioning his vocation and is into indifferentism in a very big way.
All the examinations of conscience that I have seen always begin with whether you have broken any of the 10 commandments or not. And then they move on to the traditional "mortal sins" of pride, etc. So the priest was "having a bad hair day" in that department as well.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
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| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 12:57 pm |
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Annie wrote:
All the examinations of conscience that I have seen always begin with whether you have broken any of the 10 commandments or not. And then they move on to the traditional "mortal sins" of pride, etc.
At my age, it is pretty hard to break almost anything. I even "caught" Fr. T. smiling a time or two during my confession. Of course, I want to get forgiveness and absolution but I also get a lot from his comments of support and spiritual guidance. Looking back on my experiences in the Reconciliation process, I can remember thinking near the beginning of my RCC days, "What can this fellow give me? I have kids older than he is, I have waaaaayy more experience in life than he has had, I have at least twice as many academic degrees than he has, etc., etc., etc." However, what I learned, and learned rather quickly I might add, was that he always has excellent supportive comments and spiritual guidance AND they seemed to be just what I need at that "moment" in my life.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 01:19 pm |
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| When I go to confession, as I'm sitting outside waiting, I have to keep telling myself I'm going in to talk with Christ, not the priest. And it's hard to remember that when I get in there. At my first confession I was so nervous I forgot to stop at the screen and went around it and sat face to face. I had never been in a confessional before and it was somewhat traumatic! The priest was, and is, the kindest person you could ever know. He made me very comfortable, it was an informal dialogue with me reading a slip of paper with the prayer of contrition printed on it that RCIA had given me. Then he laid his hand on top of my head and gave me absolution and a blessing. I promise you, it was as if Christ were there in person. I still get nervous and that priest is not always the one doing confession when I go, but I just have to remember whoever it is, is acting in the person of Christ (can't remember that Latin term!) I have confessed venial sins as well as mortal sin and never made to feel that I was wasting anyone's time. I have a hard time understanding how Kim got through joining the church without knowing what was going to be required, and that church teaching is to be accepted as part of that. Yes, your friend believes only church teaching because that's what she's supposed to do. The church's teaching is based on the Scriptures, not in opposition to them.
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froginarnold
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Posted: Tue Jul 31st, 2007 12:29 am |
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Juan wrote:
Hebrews 10 26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins
This is what I've experienced since joining the church. I am trying to find the "truth" in it.
*You can go to hell simply by skipping church on Sunday.
*My sex life has been compared to "a McDonald's drive-thru" since I've had my tubes tied. (By more than one person, even.) Apparently what I feel for my husband is more animal lust than love since having my tubes tied, or so says those on Catholic radio, other forums and "friends."
*You cannot hold hands during the Our Father (even though the priest behind the altar is holding the hands of the servers and even though a ten-year old boy is looking up at you with his hand outstretched). Keep your hands to yourself as true unity only takes place in the Eucharist.
*I didn't have to join the Catholic church, but it is the only church that has the true means of salvation. The rest of my family (Lutheran) may not make it to heaven.
*Protestants have more social gatherings for the sake of unity since they know their communion is a farce and can never find real unity in it. I think I even read that on this forum. I was surprised
prised since most replies are more loving and gentle.
I can't explain what has been happening these past months after joining the church. Everyone was all smiles and encouragement before I joined. After I joined came out all the nit-pickers and legalists. Relatively speaking, I've heard more "going to hell" speeches from my Catholic friends in six months than I'd heard in the Baptist church in 16 years. One priest even asked if I couldn't have surgery to untie my tubes. I wanted to ask him if he'd be available to care for my son and husband the six weeks I'd probably be in the hospital. And, oh, if I didn't survive this time, how long would he be available to help on a more permanent basis? I was surprised to find out I could even have an abortion to save my life if the intent was not to just "end the pregnancy" but I couldn't use ABC beforehand. NONE of this was in the books I studied for over two years, nor was it in the Scripture I've studied for almost 30 years.
Before I joined the Catholic church, my favorite him was "Victory in Jesus." I can't even sing that anymore. There isn't victory in Jesus. There is only victory in church attendance, NFP and knowing the do's and dont's of the Catholic church. Jesus said, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden light." I have never felt burdened such as I feel now. My husband's brothers and sisters have commented from time to time about their "Catholic guilt." I never understood it...until now.
Sincerely, those replying on this forum (with a few exceptions) have been the gentlest and humblest, even more so than even my own husband and my sponsor. I hope I have not been offensive or mean-spirited in any way.
Thank you.
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Kayla
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
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| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jul 31st, 2007 02:22 am |
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Kim,
I've only recently joined this forum and have run across your post today. I too am a recent convert to Catholicism, entering the Church this past Easter. I am so sorry that you have been robbed of a truly wonderful and welcoming atmosphere. I really think that there is quite a bit lacking in the post-RCIA (I believe they call this "mystagogy" or something like that). Ours consisted in a pot-luck dinner and about 45 minutes of class. After which we simply pushed into parish life, on equal footing with all those who had years and years of Catholic education.
You will find that while our priests are here to teach us about Christ and to administer the Sacraments- they are still very human. Some priests will cling to a certain truth of the Church and disregard others. Some priests will preach hard concepts without fully explaining them. Some priests are bitter and will respond negatively to pretty much anything. But, you also have some priests that are amazingly kind, peaceful, and always willing to help. Priests are human, and I hope that you do not judge the Church merely by the actions of Her people. We are all sinners and struggle with different things.
I am glad that you are continually seeking the Truth in all that the Church teaches. Never stop doing this. Sometimes we will run into teachings that we do not fully understand. This is a time when faith comes in, and as St. Augustine (I believe it was he) said, "Believe that you may understand, do no seek to understand that you may believe". Continue to ask questions and seek understanding! Trust in Christ, that He will never lead you astray. Christ built His Church on earth and promised the the gates of Hell shall never prevail against Her. Remember, whatever you ask God in Christ's name, in faith, will be granted to you.
Now, I'm no catechetics expert, but I'm going to attempt to respond to a few of the difficulties you say you have been experiencing.
*You can go to hell simply by skipping church on Sunday.
I don't think it's quite that simple. It is true that you can go to Hell by skipping church on Sunday, but the circumstances that surround such a case are pretty rare to come by. I think that the root of this problem lies in -why- the Church (who is guided by the Holy Spirit) makes it obligatory to attend Mass on Sunday.
The Catechism says: The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin. Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God's holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. [CCC 2182-2183] (Emphasis added)
In order to deliberately fail in this obligation, one must realize what they are willfully missing AND still choose to miss it anyways. It requires a full knowledge and understanding of what the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass really is and still the refusal to go (without a good excuse for not going). I think that occurence is quite rare.
*My sex life has been compared to "a McDonald's drive-thru" since I've had my t | | |
