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left coast mystic
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Posted: Wed Aug 6th, 2008 10:00 pm |
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I want to buy a missal that I can use to follow along in English when we are in Mexico this fall (in other words, so I can figure out what's going on). My confusion is that there are a number of different missals - the New St. Joseph missal, the Roman Catholic Daily missal, the Vatican II Weekday missal, the Daily Roman missal, and something called Missal: The Order of Mass in English. Any suggestions on how to figure out which one to get? I thought that the order of service and the prayers, etc. were the same at any RC church wherever you go, so do all these missals actually have the same content?
Marcree
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and trust shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 12:13 am |
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left coast mystic wrote: I thought that the order of service and the prayers, etc. were the same at any RC church wherever you go, so do all these missals actually have the same content?
Yes and no. The difference will be in the arrangement, number of volumes, etc.
One missal may have Sundays only. The lectionary readings are in a three year cycle, so it may have years A, B, and C, or it may be presented in three different volumes. Or it may not have the readings at all. (Prayers are the same from year to year.)
Some missals may have a single year's worth of Sunday and weekday masses with or without readings, but you have to throw it away at the end of the year and buy a new one.
Some may have everything, but they will likely be very confusing for someone who is not thoroughly familiar with the liturgical calendar, cycle of readings, the difference between propers and commons, Solemnities, Feasts, Memorials, optional memorials, etc.
I would suggest that instead of a missal, you look for something like "Magnificat" which is published monthly and has everything for every day of that month. A year's subscription is reasonably priced, and it won't give you headaches trying to find the right pages from that day. It also includes morning and evening prayers for each day, including a meditation from one of the saints, Church Fathers, Doctors, or a good homilist. Keep in mind, though, that the liturgical calendar does vary from country to country, so a missal purchased in the United States may not have exactly the same feasts that are celebrated in Mexico.
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left coast mystic
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| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 01:07 am |
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That's good news, since I just subscribed to Magnificat but haven't received the first one, so am not sure what's in it. Would I be able to take it to Mass here or elsewhere and use it instead of the missal? It kind of sounded like that, but then I'm not sure what makes it NOT the missal.
Also, what's the deal with the NEW St. Joseph missal? What needed to be changed from the old one? Is it named for the place called St. Joseph or the saint named Joseph, in which case why would he have a missal named after him?
Marcee
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and trust shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 01:29 am |
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left coast mystic wrote: That's good news, since I just subscribed to Magnificat but haven't received the first one, so am not sure what's in it. Would I be able to take it to Mass here or elsewhere and use it instead of the missal? It kind of sounded like that, but then I'm not sure what makes it NOT the missal.
It would count as a "missalette" since it has the mass for only a single month. Yes, you can take it to mass or elsewhere and use it as a missal during its cover month.
Also, what's the deal with the NEW St. Joseph missal? What needed to be changed from the old one? Is it named for the place called St. Joseph or the saint named Joseph, in which case why would he have a missal named after him?
What makes a product "new and improved"? I think the original St. Joseph missal was produced prior to the liturgy of Pope Paul VI, so the version with the revised liturgy was "new" when it was first produced almost 40 years ago.
St. Joseph is the patron saint of the universal Church, so using his name on a missal makes sense.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 02:06 am |
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Ah, Marcee, this is a difficult one from my point of view. The reason is that there are different indults (officially recognized variations) and linguistic standards for Mexico and the US, not to mention (since Rick has already done so) that the local liturgical calendar may occasionally vary from place to place. So no matter what the English says, it will not correspond exactly to the Spanish, and even the rubrics will be different in places. (The most notable rubrical difference is during the Canon, or Eucharistic Prayer. In the US, we have an indult which has us kneeling from the Sanctus to the Amen at the end of the Canon, but in Mexico the standard international rubrics are followed, and they kneel only at the Consecration, standing throughout the rest of the Canon.) Even if you bought a side-by-side English-Spanish version before you went, it would contain the US regulations, not the Mexican ones.
Another thing you will notice if you have a knowledge of Spanish (and I assume you do not, since you are looking for an English-language missal to use in Mexico) is that in many places the translations do not match at all. The English of the various seasonal prayers is extremely free, being more an original composition than a translation of the official Latin text. Meanwhile, the Spanish is much more literal, following even the Latin sentence structure as closely as it can without losing the reader. Conversely, the Mexican scriptural readings for the Mass are paraphrased, with a reduced vocabulary to aid comprehension by the sometimes illiterate faithful, and frequently offering only one of several possible senses of theologically rich passages, whereas the English version is considerably more literal, if a little flat. The point is that what the texts actually convey will often be frustratingly different.
So yeah, the Mass is the Mass, and its main parts do not vary, but it’s not exactly the same anywhere you go, and it’s easy to get confused unless you know the localizations that the Vatican has allowed for each country, region, culture and linguistic group.
As for picking a standard English language missal, my advice is to go with the one you can follow the best. Each publisher has its own idea of how to make it “easy” to follow, but since each individual is different, it makes sense to pick the one that works for you. Apart from the layout and “additional material,” you will find the official text identical, unless there has been an official change between one publication date and another. So long as what you buy was published within the past five years, you should be all right on that.
Rick’s idea of substituting a publication like Magnificat is appealing for the additional material it provides, but I suspect it is not going to be entirely satisfactory as an “inquirer’s missal,” because (if I remember correctly) it assumes a certain familiarity with the order of the Mass and leaves out portions, especially of the Ordinary (unchangeable parts), options and rubrics. Its purpose is primarily devotional rather than educational. Since you have already subscribed (still a good idea — don’t get me wrong), you can see for yourself whether you can live with it in Mexico — and whether you will have problems with the monthly publication not covering the entire time you will be in Mexico.
As to the St. Joseph Missal, this is a trade name of the Catholic Book Publishing Company. (Yes, the whole line of products is “dedicated to St. Joseph, Patron of the Universal Church,” as Rick says.) “New” will depend on the publisher’s precise intention. (Sometimes, sadly, the word is used merely to attract attention. I’ve worked for an advertising publisher for the past 30 years, so I’ve seen a lot of that kind of thing.) If I remember correctly, this particular publisher used it to indicate the changeover to the recently revised Lectionary (scriptural readings) as of 1999 and a new typographical layout. Other publishers, for various reasons, preferred to note “with Revised Lectionary” instead.
David
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left coast mystic
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| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 02:37 am |
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thanks, guys. As with everything else in the Church, there's so much to absorb, such richness, it's overwhelming most of the time, and I'm left trying to figure out the little details which probably don't matter that much, but which at least my brain can absorb reasonably quickly compared to the BIG things! 
Marcee
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and trust shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Aug 7th, 2008 03:06 am |
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left coast mystic wrote: thanks, guys. As with everything else in the Church, there's so much to absorb, such richness, it's overwhelming most of the time, and I'm left trying to figure out the little details which probably don't matter that much, but which at least my brain can absorb reasonably quickly compared to the BIG things!
My suggestion to use the Magnificat is primarily due to the fact that you are not terribly familiar with the mass, so it would make using a full missal rather difficult. Magnificat, on the other hand, has each day's mass included in basically two parts: The part that does not change from day to day, such as the Eucharistic Prayer, the Our Father, etc., (positioned in the center on marked pages) and the prayers and readings that do change from day to day. Before I went back to work and while I was attending daily mass, I would keep a holy card in the middle and fold down the page for that day's readings so I could find it quickly. And the mass for each day will not match. On weekdays of ordinary time, when the prayers of Sunday are used often during the week, Magnificat will often suggest what are called votive masses (mass for peace, mass of the Blessed Virgin Mary, mass for various needs, etc.). It will pretty much always match the day's readings, however.
As David said, it will not include in full such things as the rubrics, but not all missals have those either. At this point in your journey, I think (and this is strictly my opinion), you would be better served by something as simple as possible, and even though it will not exactly provide a decent Spanish to English translation of the mass, it will allow you to follow along with the basic liturgy. If the feast day is the same (that is, there is no deviation on the calendar between Mexico and the United States for that day), the Spanish and English translations will be based on the same Latin original (although, as David pointed out, the Spanish translation is much closer to the original Latin than the English). But keep in mind that there will be differences and some of them might be significant (like standing where the book says to kneel). In those cases, follow the rest of the congregation and not the instructions in the book.
Another alternative is simply to ask your priest if you can purchase a missalette of the type used in the parish. Chances are he'll give you one. At this time of the year, most missalettes will be good until the end of the liturgical year, the Solemnity of Christ the King. The new liturgical year begins with the First Sunday of Advent.
I would just hate to see you go out and spend a lot of money on a good missal only to find it too confusing to use at this point on your journey. Especially since you've already ordered the Magnificat, try it out for awhile and see if you consider it adequate for your purposes at this time. You can always buy a more permanent missal at a later date, when you have a better idea of what you're looking for. At that point, it will be much more a matter of preference, and I would strongly recommend that you visit a Catholic bookstore and ask to see the various missals they offer, and ask for their assistance in determining which one is right for you.
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left coast mystic
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| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
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Posted: Sun Aug 10th, 2008 10:17 pm |
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Thanks for your input, Rick. I tend to get overenthusiastic on the book-buying end of things, so I appreciate your counsel.
Marcee
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and trust shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Intercessor
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Posted: Sun Aug 10th, 2008 10:36 pm |
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left coast mystic wrote:
Thanks for your input, Rick. I tend to get overenthusiastic on the book-buying end of things. . . .
Marcee
Marcee, maybe we earn an indulgence after purchasing a minimum number of books on Catholicism. (that's my excuse, anyway)
Becky
____________________
Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials. . .the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life. . . NAB James 1:2-4,12
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left coast mystic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | La Honda, California USA |
| Posts: | 167 |
| First Name: | Marcee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nondenominational charismatic, Presbyterian, long-time lover of the RCC |
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Posted: Sun Aug 10th, 2008 10:39 pm |
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Intercessor wrote: [size=Marcee, maybe we earn an indulgence after purchasing a minimum number of books on Catholicism. (that's my excuse, anyway)
Becky
]
I'll accept that!
However, I believe that there are no indulgences for me until I'm on the other side of the Tiber. I guess I'm on safe ground as long as book lust isn't a mortal sin....!
Marcee
____________________
Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and trust shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Intercessor
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Posted: Sun Aug 10th, 2008 10:53 pm |
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left coast mystic wrote:
Intercessor wrote: [size=Marcee, maybe we earn an indulgence after purchasing a minimum number of books on Catholicism. (that's my excuse, anyway)
Becky
]
I'll accept that!
However, I believe that there are no indulgences for me until I'm on the other side of the Tiber. I guess I'm on safe ground as long as book lust isn't a mortal sin....!
Marcee
Alas, Marcee. Now you've done it! You've just confessed to an attachment!
Time to review Ascent of Mount Carmel. 
St. John of the Cross is tough, even on nice ladies like you.
Becky
____________________
Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials. . .the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life. . . NAB James 1:2-4,12
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