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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
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| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 08:30 pm |
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| I was terribly sorry to learn that Senator Edward Kennedy has been diagnosed as having a brain tumor. Please join me in praying for his healing.
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 02:02 pm |
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| You are right Marshall. It is a bit of a struggle for me to pray for Sen. Kennedy, because I have disliked him for so many years, for so many reasons. But if I can't pray for him now and wish him well, then I have no business calling myself a Christian, and I do no credit to the catholic church. If the new generation of Kennedys would all turn pro-life, think what a revolution that would bring about!
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foundthelight
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 05:30 pm |
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Like Credo Catholic I don't particularly care for Sen. Kennedy. That being said, I do pray for him and his family in this trying time. May God have mercy on all our souls!
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 09:07 pm |
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| Thank you for praying for the Senator. Although raised in a Democrat family, I later became a Republican because I had some concerns about the Democratic Party. Read the book "Marie", by Peter Maas and view the movie "Marie", starring Sissy Spacek and former Senator Fred Thompson if you would like to learn more about that. Anyway, although not approving of some things that Senator Kennedy has done, I nevertheless have respected him as one of our U.S. Senators and he has had a sort of "counterbalancing effect" on our government and political process which helps our nation work as it should no matter how I feel about him personally. Senator Kennedy has been aware of things and had to deal with things that most people would find it hard to deal with - as Bismark said, "the real politic" of our nation and world - and I am sure that has worn on him as well. And if I cannot pray for him and for others I have not liked then that diminishes me as a Christian as you good folks have mentioned too. And I would not wish the Senator's health problem on anyone. Yet, who knows, maybe this health problem will help him to prepare to meet God. A few years ago, one night when I had really bad bronchitis, could hardly breathe and was wondering if God was going to call me home that night, I picked up my Bible and, while laboring for air, read the Book of Job. I had to put myself in God's hands and say, "thy Will be done" that night. God gave me some more time here on earth, after that dark night, however, He may be telling Senator Kennedy that it is time for him to come on out of this life and I pray that God will ease Senator Kennedy's transition and help him to prepare to go on to be with his Heavenly Father if the Senator's time is nearing.
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 04:30 am |
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| I don't think we should pray for his healing, or anybody else's either. We humans can't really comprehend the plan God has for us all so I think it is more appropriate to pray that God's will be done in our lives and those we are inclined to pray for as well.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 03:34 pm |
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BodRod wrote: I don't think we should pray for his healing, or anybody else's either.
I disagree. I believe we should pray for healing according to God's will, but realize that sometimes healing means acceptance rather than a return to physical health.
When I would lead hospice patients in prayer, it was always for spiritual, emotional, and physical healing, and the grace to accept God's will for the patient and his family.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 03:49 pm |
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| I don't see a lot of difference between the two statements.
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left coast mystic
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 03:56 pm |
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Rick -
I'm with you. Jesus told his disciples that healing would be part of their ministry, and clearly there are many people who have prayed for (and had others pray for) their healing, and received it in miraculous ways. I've always appreciated St. Paul's description of his petition to God and his submission when the answer came back as "no".
IMHO the real difficulty with having a right understanding of prayers for healing has more to do with the distortions of American Christianity than anything else. Our culture is biased toward prosperity (every type) as a sign of righteousness, and believers in America naturally elevate visible breakthroughs as the only "real" evidence of God's blessing. The thing that gets left out in this perspective is humility, which in God's kingdom is of far greater importance than whether or not a person's physical body is healed.
-Marcee
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Godliness with contentment is great gain. (1 Tim. 6:6)
In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and trust shall be your strength. (Isa. 30:15)
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 04:43 pm |
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We're always to pray for healing. God in His providence is in control of any miracle: whether it is to occur or not. It is implicit in every prayer (for healing or any other prayer) that God may say "no".
I think Rick and Marcee's statements are right on, and hit the nail on the head.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Free
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 06:13 pm |
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I encountered a very strong "works mentality" when I was at the charismatic non-denominational church. They would be shocked to hear it called that, though. They think Catholics rely on "works" while Protestants rely on God's grace. Nevertheless, when it came to prayer, they felt they had to determine whether or not to pray for healing or some other miracle, rather than to simply obey Jesus, pray, and leave it in the Father's hands. They believed that they had to work their faith in order to a miracle to happen. The sermons were often about how the Holy Spirit was like the engine of the car, and people had to turn on the engine with their faith, and then push the gas pedal to make the Holy Spirit's power work. You see why I call it a "works mentality?" They thought THEY were in control, rather than God.
They also talked about putting demands on God, as if God owed them a certain outcome. If a person was "prayed up" and "sin free," then God owed them the favor they were asking for.
They also burdened themselves with guilt for certain outcomes because they had prayed a certain way. For instance, a young mother needed the baby in her womb to turn before birth. They laid hands on her and prayed and prayed for the baby to turn. When the baby was born with the cord wrapped around its neck several times, they blamed themselves for having prayed too many times for the baby to turn.
I agree that we should always pray for healing, understanding that God's way of healing may necessitate a process. He sees the whole person, inside and out, and truly, Father Knows Best. Oftentimes it's later when we look back that we can see that healing took place, and yet it took place in exactly the right way for that person.
We can trust God to do it right; to do it in a way that benefits the particular person. Yet we must do our part, and that is to pray for healing!
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Didi
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 06:37 pm |
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In praying for healing, we have to realize that sometimes God chooses to heal in other areas of our lives besides the physical -- spiritual, emotional, healing within relationships and families. I have seen this many times with friends and family, where they were never physically healed, but a lot of other healing occured in their lives to make their last days more peaceful. Physical healing, after all, is only temporary given that our time on earth is short compared to eternity. Spiritual healing will lead us into eternal life.
I have struggled with this personally as I continue to have chronic health problems. But my faith has increased so much, and my understanding of suffering and offering our suffering, that I know the prayers for healing were heard -- just answered in a different way.
As in all things, of course, we must always pray "Thy will be done."
May God's will be done for Senator Kennedy. May he be healed in whatever ways he needs to be healed to have peace for his soul and the hope of eternal life.
Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2008 06:42 pm by Didi
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 06:56 pm |
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| I still don't see a difference. If we pray for a person to be healed and it is God's will to have the person healed, we get a "Yes." and the person is healed. However, if it is NOT God's will that the person be healed, the answer is "No." and the person is not healed. However, if we pray for God's will to be done, the answer is ALWAYS "Yes." and we do not find ourselves asking for things which are against God's will.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 07:33 pm |
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God wants to involve us in His processes. This is why we pray. That's why saints continue to pray for us in heaven, and why we pray for the dead. Sure, He does His will, no matter what. It doesn't follow that we ought not pray. We should, because 1) we are commanded to, and 2) because God wants us involved in the whole process of His giving grace and redeeming people. Christianity is communitarian, not individualistic. We're our brothers' keepers.
So we pray. In cases of healing, we always are to understand that God may not heal in this instance. There are factors beyond us that we can't see. It may be time for a person to die. It may be that they can be healed through natural means and not supernatural, or that they will improve over time with no help. We trust that all things work together for good (Romans 8:28).
I dealt with the errrors of believing that all are healed in my paper (written as a charismatic Protestant in 1982):
Biblical Refutation of "Hyperfaith" / "Name-it-Claim it" Teaching: Is it Always God's Will to Heal in Every Instance?
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 07:44 pm |
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BodRod wrote: I still don't see a difference. If we pray for a person to be healed and it is God's will to have the person healed, we get a "Yes." and the person is healed. However, if it is NOT God's will that the person be healed, the answer is "No." and the person is not healed. However, if we pray for God's will to be done, the answer is ALWAYS "Yes." and we do not find ourselves asking for things which are against God's will.
 "Dear Lord, please heal Cliff's slowness on the uptake! Amen!"  Just teasin' with ya, Cliff!!  Maybe you should move to Massachusetts and run for U.S. Senator when the time comes! Seriously, I have always gotten the impression that God does allow us to pray for our needs and even our wants. He, of course, can say yes or no, however, I think that He does want us to ask when we feel the need. And I do think that at times, prayers to God have helped change things. If, for example, I pray, "Lord, please suspend the law of gravity so that I can float in the air when I jump off the roof of my house", no, I don't think that God is going to do that because it would hurt many other people, animals, etc. and He has given me the knowledge that if I jump off my house, recklessly, intentionally, I could very well be injured and die. He probably won't intervene although He may send His angels who will somehow help me land in a way that I will not be killed if it is not my time to go yet. If, for further example, I am trying to fix the roof of my house, working carefully, and somehow slip and start to fall off, and if I pray "Lord help me!" and if God feels that my continued life will not harm anything else and may open up the possibility for good to be done, if it is not my time, somehow, He may help me, keeping me from being killed or severely injured and allow me more time on earth as a gift to me and perhaps as a gift to others whom I may help in His Name. I think, that God does want us to ask when we have needs. If we become fatalistic and go through life just assuming that God is going to do what God wants to do without regard to what we might like or need, we can get to the point that we feel no need of prayer and we can get to the point that we regard God as having no love for us, no interest in what we might want or need. It is clear that God does want us to love Him and I think that God is like a loving Father who will at times indulge us and at times protect us and/or heal us and so forth. When I run defrag, on my computer, I note that there are some "immovable files" which, for whatever reasons, cannot be moved for the good of my computer, however, there are many files which CAN be moved - the computer would have worked adequately without them being moved but it might work even better if the files are moved. If I may compare my life to my computer, I think that there are some "files", so to speak, in our lives which cannot be moved or my life will not work, however, there are some "files" in my life, which CAN be moved and may make my life work better if they are moved although it would have worked adequately if they were not moved. Perhaps we can compare God to Defrag and if we ask Him to do so, He will "clean up our files", those which can be moved, and make our lives run better. Um, if that makes any sense, ha, ha! Have some cake, Cliff and ponder upon this!  Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2008 08:12 pm by EMarshallBuckles
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 08:13 pm |
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Free wrote: They also burdened themselves with guilt for certain outcomes because they had prayed a certain way.
There is a tremendous danger here. I know a similar congregation in which a member miscarried, and the preacher (at the funeral) told them it was their fault, that if they had attended church more regularly, prayed more, and given more, their daughter would have been born healthy. The miscarriage was their fault.
That was his preaching at the funeral! God will punish us if we don't pray hard enough, or go to church often enough, or tithe regularly. I wasn't at the funeral because I had to work, but I couldn't believe it when I heard about it.
And they say Catholics stress works?
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 08:26 pm |
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| Wow; that is a breathtaking example. This man should be defrocked immediately, in my opinion, to say such a wicked thing.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 08:54 pm |
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| Dave, is that to be done before or after we super glue his mouth shut!!!
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 11:13 pm |
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His mouth should be shut by legal means, not physical! 
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 11:29 pm |
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Being one of Ted Kennedy's "western" constituents, i.e. those of us who live in the forgotten western realm of the Commonwealth, I'd like to say I'm gratified to see such an outpouring of prayer for this man.
I can't understand his stand on abortion, embryonic stem-cells, and some other stands he took. But he has represented his people well; so well that they keep him in. It's not a matter of pulling the jackass' tail all the time as one member of the Grand Old Pharisee party joked to me once. But he has delivered the goods, and not in the shameless manner of other pols, such as one of his colleagues up in Alaska or out in the Dakotas with the "Lawrence Welk museum" or Sen. Patrick Leahey's notion to declare Lake Champlain a "new Great Lake."
And, unlike the Pharisees in the GOP who scorn abortion (rightfully so) but also scorn the pregnant young women as welfare cheats and decided to kill off even programs such as WIC, Food Stamps, Sec. 8 housing and other necessary things that have made the difference in whether or not these young women carried their pregnancies to birth, Ted Kennedy's record needs a second look in all fairness.
While the Pharisee party was busy scrapping the social safety net during the Gingrich years, while making their buddies in the defense industries, home building associations and realtor lobbies happy--and of course--fattening their war chests, they were also saying the right word No regarding abortion, while doing the wrong thing in not lifting a finger to help unburden the poorest among us.
The Grand Old Pharisee Party wasn't born in 1856. It got its start when God smelled something afoul with Cain and asked the latter what happened to Abel. Cain, not only became the first guy to try and pull a cover-up, he also became the first Republican when he said "Am I my brother's keeper?"
I know, some people will think I'm oblivious to the cries of our brothers who've been aborted. Far from it. Nor am I being glib. But when we look at his record overall compared to a lot of the other prochoice legislators, he will have probably saved a lot more lives that might've otherwise been aborted than a lot of the more pencuniary-minded souls who seem more interested in fattening up the national treasury to lower taxes for themselves while using abortion and embryonic stem cell research as Willie Horton like wedge issues.
They blamed Ted Kennedy for years when it came to helping the poor and called it "welfare spending," but they kept their yaps shut when it came to stealing from our kids and giving themselves a big HUGE fat tax welfarist giveaway deal to their pals in the highest income brackets.
He's no saint; but he's far from the devil his enemies have made him out to be. And yes, he deserves our prayers.
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"This Old House's" motto is "Measure twice, cut once." My new motto is THINK at least twice or thrice, then you only have to write once, and maybe apologize nonce.
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BodRod
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 11:35 pm |
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Steven Barrett wrote:
He's no saint; but he's far from the devil his enemies have made him out to be.
And my impression is that he's not much of a swimmer either.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 12:26 am |
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Dave Armstrong wrote: Wow; that is a breathtaking example. This man should be defrocked immediately, in my opinion, to say such a wicked thing.
Since he is self educated, self appointed, and essentially self ordained, there is no one to defrock him.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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BodRod
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 12:54 am |
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CajunRick wrote:
Since he is self educated, self appointed, and essentially self ordained, there is no one to defrock him.
Boy!!! Am I glad you wrote that. I went back and re-read it. I had misread the original and was thinking priest rather than preacher. It still should NOT have been said but I feel a little less troubled by it. I think I have become a little overly sensitive about the process of answering questions regarding the behavior of some priests.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Kayla
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:54 am |
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As you keep Senator Kennedy in your prayers, would you also keep my history professor, Dr. K, in your prayers as well? He has the same cancer as Kennedy and has been going through a rough few months. We've almost lost him a few times. Thanks.
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I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
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BodRod
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 04:12 am |
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I have seen this disease "up close" so I'll include his family and those close to him also.
Last edited on Tue May 27th, 2008 04:13 am by BodRod
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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foundthelight
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